Legal Leaders Exchange - Podcast episode 33

In the 33rd episode of Legal Leaders Exchange, join ELM Solutions’ Jennifer McIver, Associate Director of Legal Operations and Industry Insights, and Diana Flanders, Vice President of Strategic Planning & Marketing, to explore the trends, challenges, and opportunities shaping the year ahead for legal operations. Through candid reflections and real client voices recorded during the conference, Jen and Diana unpack the momentum driving legal ops leaders into 2026.

This episode captures the energy and optimism from Amplify 2025, exploring the connections that fuel smarter decisions. It also provides insights on rate strategy, vendor relationships, AI use and adoption, and the transformation of legal operations.

Listen to hear:

• How legal operations professionals are rethinking their approach to rate increases and law firm relationships for 2026.
• How organizations are planning to adopt and scale AI, including balancing innovation with day‑to‑day workloads.
• Predictions on how evolving business models and technology will change legal team roles and priorities over the next five years.
• Client perspectives on the future of tactical tasks like invoice review in an AI-driven environment.
• How ELM Solutions is aligning its product roadmap to support client priorities.    

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Transcript

Greg Corombos

Hello and welcome to the 33rd episode of Legal Leaders Exchange. In this session, “Legal Ops Unplugged: Voices from Amplify 2025,” Jen McIver and Diana Flanders take you behind the scenes of the user conference to share candid conversations with legal ops managers, litigation leaders, and tech specialists. We unpack the energy and optimism of Amplify , and tee up insights on rate strategy, vendor relationships, AI use and adoption, and the transformation of legal operations. Stick around to hear what ELM Solutions clients predict for 2026 and even which condiment best represents AI in the legal world.

Jennifer McIver

Thank you, Greg and thank you, Diana, for joining us today. It's crazy. It's been over a month now, and I'm still somewhat on the Amplify high. I really don't know what it was this year, but the energy brought by our clients, I felt it just to be absolutely infectious. I'm curious, how many Amplifies Have you attended, and what did the feelings this year bring for you?

Diana Flanders

Yes, this was my fourth Amplify, and I totally agree about the energy level, especially the sense of optimism and urgency, you could really tell clients weren't just curious or sitting on the fence. They really wanted to act on ideas like AI and strategic transformation.

Jennifer McIver

I think from an executive level, this is something, we put a lot of effort into Amplify, and it's a really big deal, internally for us. But talk it through a little bit about how important you feel it is to have a user conference like Amplify, especially for ELM Solutions.

Diana Flanders

It's essential. And in my mind, Amplify isn't just a single event. It's all about connection – the connection between Wolters Kluwer and our clients, that informs their ongoing customer experience and our product roadmap. But really even more powerfully, it's about building that ongoing connection amongst our clients themselves.

Jennifer McIver

Yeah, there was a lot of interaction that I saw. I led a few different panels, and during those I didn't even have to talk. And not only was it the panelists that were going, but it was folks that were sitting at the tables in front of the panelists. Next thing I know, there were conversations going back and forth, and there were even jokes about people poaching other people’s employees. And I know that that sounds bad, but they were really jokes. Just in my opinion, it was an absolute attestation to the fact that we have really good talent within our clients.

Diana Flanders

Yes, yes, it was great to just see that level of camaraderie and great sense of humor.

Jennifer McIver

There's definitely some good sense of humor there. This year, in addition to our regularly scheduled product roadmap, our keynote panelists, all of the sessions that we had scheduled and the networking, I also had a really good opportunity and a space. I actually had a room where I could dig deeper with folks and record, essentially, small podcasts with everybody and talk about what they are looking forward to in 2026. We narrowed down the questions. There was a lot of questions we could ask. And we narrowed it down to topics about rate increases, vendor relationships, AI, and just generally the legal landscape. And so, I want to go through and let's listen to some of those clips. And as we do so, talk through a few of them. And the first question that we really came to was, in 2026 as people are planning for it, how are they rethinking their approach to rate increases in law firm relationships? That's big for us. Just in ELM Solutions, I know I've been at a lot of events talking about rates, and I think even internally, Diana, we've done a lot with our approach to the holistic ecosystem. Can you talk a little bit to that?

Diana Flanders

Yeah, we absolutely want to help our clients strengthen their partnerships between their in-house teams and their law firms. And it's not just about negotiating rates, it's about creating transparency and trust. And I think that comes through pretty clearly in some of the comments we'll hear in a second, and it's also why we invited Alex Guajardo and Keith Maziarek to share the law firm perspective and about how data and collaboration can lead to better outcomes for that entire ecosystem. And DynamicInsights, which we showcased, is a great example. It gives our clients benchmarking so that discussions can move from reactive to more strategic and proactive.

Jennifer McIver

You mentioned Alex and Keith. I thought it was quite amusing. We were doing a session. They're sitting in the middle, and I honestly felt like I should have given them armor with the way that the questions were coming at them.

Diana Flanders

Yes, the audience had some very strong perspectives, shall we say.

Jennifer McIver

I think the great thing about bringing folks in from the law firm – and we did have a lot of other comments and participation at events this year about that – was just the fact that law firms are just as willing to talk as our corporate legal departments. And so, I think the more that we facilitate, I love that. And I think that might be a little bit of a key. But with that being said, let's listen to some of the responses that we received about how our customers are looking at rate increases and firm relations as we move into 2026.

Stacey Lettie

This is Stacey Lettie. I'm the chief of staff at Organon in New Jersey, and as I'm looking at 2026, I don't know that I'm necessarily rethinking my entire approach to rate increases. But what I am rethinking is, how do I use technology and use tools to manage the process better, to ensure that when I'm looking at rate increases, that I have all the data in the marketplace to try to assess whether it's a reasonable increase or not. We do use technology to keep a lid on rate increases that are outside of our time frame or outside of a stated cap that we use.

Michael Cronin

This is Michael Cronin, senior claims litigation attorney with Westfield Insurance. Our approach with our firms going forward is making sure that they are able to implement AI into their workflows to make them more efficient. It's a very daunting thing for firms to think about. We have some very sophisticated firms, some not so sophisticated firms. So, almost acting like an AI consultant to them to make sure that they have the right applications and processes in place as we move forward.

Kelly Shumake

This is Kelly Shumake, and I'm the litigation manager and co-administrator of our Passport environment at Santander. And it's interesting, because rate increases are really a big thing to us, and we are approaching 2026 by telling our law firms, if you've had a rate increase in the last two years, don't ask for one this year. And another thing that we're doing as this time of year rolls around, when you have your associates making partner, and they're doing internal promotions, we're telling people that's fine, you can do your promotions, but they're going to be at the rates that you were locked in for the last two years or in the last year.

Jennifer McIver

All right, I think all these were great focuses. From strict processes to leveraging tech AI, a little bit more of the intangible community engagement, the approaches by the legal teams are different, but I do think that they all move towards a single goal of trying to find ways to save money but also still receive value. Which to me, has been really central throughout the course of 2025, so it doesn't really surprise me that that's where we're moving in 2026, really kind of taking it to that next level and continuing those goals. Another piece that we talked about, and that I was able to pose during Amplify, was AI. It's starting to kind of take over. We've been at events and the buzzwords everywhere. And I don't want to say it's a buzzword, because it's real. And that's one thing I like about it this year, it's the first time, I think, in a while, that we've had a trend that is grabbing and it's taking hold. So, I'm kind of curious on your thoughts for talking about AI at ELM Solutions. How do you think we're doing with balancing that with innovation?

Diana Flanders

Great question. So, here at ELM Solutions, obviously, we co-create and co-innovate with our clients, but it's not just about building the tools. I think we have a really important view across many different clients and an important role in sharing that knowledge and helping educating our clients about what I would call the art of the possible. Some of the tools that we've been co innovating with our clients on are embedded within our solutions, but we also have user groups. We had our Innovation Showcase during Amplify. So, it's really that mix of education that we're learning and also fostering the conversations across our client base.

Jennifer McIver

And I will say, the Innovation Showcase with all of the great things that Wolters Kluwer is starting to work with in ELM Solutions with AI, there was never downtime. I'll be honest, I had to schedule time outside of Amplify, just because I couldn't even get in and see once just going through. I've seen it before. I wanted to see it again. And there was just no way. Everybody was around that table, which is really great to see. Again, I think it's a trend that's it's not just – I call it a trend, and I don't know that it's a trend – I think it's reality now. Does that make sense?

Diana Flanders

Absolutely.

Jennifer McIver

So let's go ahead and listen to some of the responses that we received from our clients when asked about how they're going to balance AI innovation with workloads and just generally attack AI altogether in 2026.

Kisla Rami

This is Kisla Rami. I am a legal technology manager at Citizens. In 2026 our vision for innovation is to really lean in and embrace AI that we have, the tools that we've onboarded, and also set up demos that are helpful across practice areas for us. I think AI is something that is going to be embedded in legal ops specifically. And when we think of a bank like Citizens that's been around for years but has really been reluctant to embrace AI because of its risky nature, attorneys need that encouragement. So, our vision for innovation is to really teach them how to embrace it, to be the front runners of leading the charge, of embracing AI and to make sure that we have a streamlined process and organized process to do it.

Dereck Figueroa

This is Dereck Figueroa. I'm a business analyst for Popular Bank. Our team is balancing innovation with workload by making sure that the innovation is improving our workload. So, look at it this way, we're not changing we're not reinventing the wheel. We're going a completely different route, and we're using AI as what it's meant to be, an assistant. It's cutting time. I believe the most important thing of us for AI is using it to cut those tasks that are not as important in a legal office as others might be. So instead of having an attorney spend two, three hours submitting invoices, why don't we have them do that in 10 minutes and focus on our matters and our lawsuits and everything that we have to do throughout the day? I think for 2026 our vision for innovation is just to go further beyond. These partnerships that we have with Wolters Kluwer and so many of our friends are going to be the next step where we want to take our office. I think this is going to be the future. And AI is here to stay, and as long as we keep innovating, go hand in hand, there's nowhere to go but up.

Michael Cronin

This is Michael Cronin, senior claims litigation attorney with Westfield Insurance. As innovation becomes more prevalent, we are trying to balance what we use and how we use it, making sure that we know what we're doing with it, first of all. But also getting it to the right people to handle what they're doing. Innovation vision for next year is to definitely dive more into the AI capabilities of T360°, and make sure that we use that to do some really good things for, not just our company, but for our partners who are our outside counsel.

Eliana Toledo

This is Eliana Toledo. I'm a project manager for Marsh McLennan and to the legal operations team. One of the things that we actually discussed during Amplify was the creation of the chat bots. We heard that through one of the sessions, and we really think that's a good thing to implement in 2026 that will free a lot of our time, make sure the attorneys get to it, and we get our energy and our thoughts to something else.

Kelly Shumake

This is Kelly Shoemake, and I am the litigation manager and co-administrator for the Passport environment at our company, Santander. It's interesting, this question about how we're going to balance legal ops and AI, because for me, with AI, everybody has to have a starting point. It's almost like you need to see what someone else has done with it for it to spark that creativity in your own mind. And so, for us, this conference has been so great because it's now sparked those ideas for us to take back and know what to do. Because prior to this, I wasn't really sure where we could use it, but now that I've seen what other people have done, it's given me those building blocks to start with.

Jennifer McIver

I really appreciate the insights to how our clients are balancing innovation in AI. It almost seems like the biggest initiative that they're looking forward in 2026 is just the continued adoption of AI and continuing to get comfortable and expanding use cases and just diving in on the day-to-day use for greater efficiency. So, AI is really big. Everybody is absolutely going forward. They're moving forward with adoption. And I think another piece of that puzzle is just finding new use cases. Speaking of use cases, I think there's a lot of talk in the media about AI impacting the billable hour. This is shifting us a little bit to really getting down to the impact of AI. And there's even talk of AI possibly taking jobs. I don't know that I agree with that. Actually, I really know that I don't agree with that, but I do think that changes are going to happen. So what are you hearing, Diana, about changes in the impact of AI?

Diana Flanders

I agree with your take on it, Jen. I don't think it's necessarily about eliminating or taking jobs. But I think it's, it's about adding a superpower, really, for legal operations and corporate legal departments, as well as the law firms that serve them, so that they can shift from that tactical manual work to really higher value, more strategic enablement. And that unlocks so much, better insights and analytics, automation. Again, it's all about being able to shift focus to delivering more value for their companies.

Jennifer McIver

We'll come up to one thing that I think that that folks are going to impact. But before we do that, I'm going to go ahead and let's turn to the responses that we have. And let's see what our clients think may change in the next five years with evolving business models and technology. Let's hear what they have to say.

Kisla Rami

This is Kisla Rami. I am a legal technology manager at Citizens. In the next five years, I believe legal teams will start to rely less on manual input, and they'll lean more into automation, really understanding how to harness the technology that they have and set up the automations for reporting, set up those fields, specifically, where things can auto populate. Instead of somebody going in and mapping anything, they'll do it at the forefront, and then they'll continue to improve those processes as they go on.

Dereck Figueroa

This is Derek Figueroa, business analyst with Popular Bank. In the next five years, I have to say legal teams will stop redundant tasks, will stop doing things outside of their scope of law. I think legal operations is going to become very important in the future. It already is. Furthermore, we're going to start being able to assist legal teams better than we have in the past. We're going to start to handle better tasks for them and bigger tasks for them. And I think legal teams are going to start focusing more on specialization. I think when it comes to the hiring process, it's going to change a lot. When it comes to day-to-day operations, it's also going to change because we're going to start looking at candidates who are specialized in specific areas, because these redundant tasks are going to be gone because AI is coming to assist with them.

Stacey Lettie

This is Stacey Lettie from Organon. I am the chief of staff to the general counsel. We have a very small team. It's me and like two and a half people. And so, for me, as I look to 2026, I think there is so much to do that my focus is really going to be on prioritization. There's so much innovation that we could do, and in this world that we live in where technology is changing and the messages are changing all the time, and honestly, the finish line for what is success keeps changing. There's a lot of pressure to innovate quickly. And when you have a smaller team, you really have to prioritize. What is going to get my attention? What do I have the budget for? What is going to have the most impact? And you have to balance all that with what the longer term strategy is. I think it's really important to be looking at your plan in terms of, what am I not only doing this year, but what do I think I'm going to be doing next year? And to do things in an order that makes sense. You know, I had a plan. I just said to you recently, I had a plan at January of 2025. That plan has changed dramatically throughout the year because of different reasons, reorganizations, budget changes, staffing changes, and so now, as I go into 2026, I have to go back and look at that and really look at it again with fresh eyes, because every year is a new set of challenges.

Michael Cronin

This is Michael Cronin, senior claims litigation attorney with Westfield Insurance. In the next five years, I think the job of invoice review is going to completely change with the use of AI. I don't think it'll be as laborious of a task. I think the AI will be able to pick and make you look at certain things and not have to possibly go through a whole invoice. And that will make the process a lot quicker and easier and get payment out quicker.

Eliana Toledo

This is Eliana Toledo. I'm a project manager for Marsh McLennan in the legal operations team, I think, and I hope that's in the next five years, that legal teams will stop reviewing small invoices and just target the big spend. I hope that AI takes over and takes away that burden that all of us have.

Jennifer McIver

Okay, so while the billable hour may not die, it actually does seem like, based on some of the responses, many want invoice review to die or to disappear. I should say death might be a bad word here, but I actually kind of still question whether that that's going to be reality. I think invoice review will absolutely be here to stay, but I'm also hoping to be pleasantly surprised on that, and where we're going to be with legal operations and with invoice review and those other pieces of the day-to-day puzzle. As you mentioned, the tactical pieces that really should be turning into the strategic. Just taking a step back, though, not just about the death of the invoice, but as we look at the responses that we received. I think overall themes for 2026 priorities that I'm at least distilling from our clients, responses are tech driven, rate management, relationship building, AI integration for efficiency and innovation, as well as redefining legal teams, roles and priorities. And that's a big one for me. I was talking to somebody else recently and had a great conversation on the fact that the jobs aren't going to be gone, but what people are doing and how people are thinking, I think, is really going to shift. So, as we think about ELM Solutions strategies, product development, Diana, what are your thoughts on how we'll assist our clients with some of these priorities?

Diana Flanders

Our roadmap is going to be focusing on three things, mainly: actionable insights, automation leveraging AI, and in tools that make legal ops that true business driver. And when we talk about how those are going to be manifest in our applications, there's going to be some things that are going to be embedded features like our new matter summarization AI that we released recently for TyMetrix 360°, as well as agentic AI. And this is really the next wave of the future with workflow tools such as timekeeper and rate review, so some really cool areas that we showcased at Amplify.

Jennifer McIver

I'm curious too, because I know we're doing some work on invoice review. I know that there's tons of advantage still to using a managed service, and I think that's still going to be in play for a lot of it. But I am really curious to see how agentic AI will impact invoice review. And I almost think that next year I'm going to ask the exact same question to see if invoice review is in play, or something like that, because I do think that that's on the minds of our legal operations clients. Because invoice review just seems to be such a high-level administrative burden.

Diana Flanders

Yeah, agree.

Jennifer McIver

So we're going to take a little bit of a turn here, Diana, and that turn is going to be, during the course of Amplify, I actually had the wonderful opportunity to be on stage with amazing panelists, both our clients as well as some folks from the law firm ecosystem, and out of nowhere, at the end, I actually did ask a question to everybody, and that was, if you could compare AI to a condiment, which condiment would it be and why? So first, I'm just going to ask you, because I think I'm supposed to push forward a lot of my questions to you in advance, maybe get a little approval. And that one, I think, might have come out of left field for you, what were your thoughts when I asked about AI and condiments?

Diana Flanders

You're right, to be honest, I was on the edge of my seat, but it turned out great. It was very funny and very memorable and actually quite on point. I think the audience enjoyed it a lot.

Jennifer McIver

I always got to keep people on their toes a little bit. I thought it was really fun. Some of the responses, at least on the spot, that we got there is someone mentioned hot sauce. And I can see hot sauce for AI. I mean, it's definitely spicy. It's definitely something that you put on other things that maybe have a little less flavor, that you want to amp up a little bit. Think that works for AI. I thought maple syrup was pretty funny. What do you think about maple syrup?

Diana Flanders

That was an extremely creative one!

Jennifer McIver

I think I'll note for that one, maple syrup, it came from somebody, we mentioned Keith earlier. I loved it because, for law firms, I think it's a little sticky, so I think it was appropriate, coming from, from somebody who's in the law firm ecosystem. And the other one, ketchup. Ketchup was there, and then we just had pepper, which, okay, maybe I don't think of pepper as a condiment, but I think it kind of is. It's a spice, it’s a condiment, goes on everything. I think those are really good, as well. What I want to do now is I want to go, because I did ask during the course of doing our mini podcast at Amplify, I did go ahead and ask what folks would think that their condiment would be. Let's go ahead and listen to some of those responses.

Kisla Rami

I like honey barbecue on mostly all of my dishes, I think it sweetens the deal, but putting too much on it can be overly sweet. And I think of AI in the same way. When we're talking about implementing AI, I think about how to make things better, and that's what honey barbecue does for me. So that's how I envision AI for our teams and the future.

Dereck Figueroa

If I could compare AI to a condiment, I'd call it a spicy ketchup. It's something that's been around forever, but it's getting bumped up and being made better, and it's taking a whole new light.

Stacey Lettie

I had to really think about this one, and the one that I came up with, this is one of my favorites, is everything bagel seasoning. And the reason that I chose that one is everything bagel seasoning goes on everything. You put it everywhere. I put it in scrambled eggs, I put it on toast, I put it on avocados. Doesn't matter. It goes on everything. And what I am finding, as I'm learning more and more about AI, is that it actually can go on everything. Originally, when I got an AI tool, I was just using it for contract review and asking silly questions and helping me plan a trip. But now I'm starting to see it in things like invoice review or matter summaries or understanding how it can help with emails.

Rebecca Runge

When I think about AI and the mandates that we're all receiving from our executives, it a little bit reminds me of my toddler who likes both ketchup and ranch, and we're a little confused about why we're putting both on everything. So, we're hoping to get a little bit more intentional about our use of ketchup and ranch as we move forward with AI.

Michael Cronin

Probably like a truffle oil, because it's somewhat expensive, but it really kicks up the flavor to a meal. But also, the caveat is, if you put too much into it, it might not work out the way you want it to.

Glenn Vile

I'm gonna go with an aioli. It's a garlicky mayo where it goes great on some things, but on others, it is completely inappropriate.

Kelly Shumake

Horseradish. It can be hot, or you can dilute it down. Once you get to know it, it's not so scary.

Matthew Gass

I'm going to have to say ketchup, and the reason is because ketchup can go on anything. You can put ketchup with breakfast. You can put it with lunch. You can put it with dinner. Some people, I don't agree with it, but some people will put it on steak. Some people will put it on their eggs. Again, don't agree with that one, either. More hash browns for me, burgers, that kind of stuff. But it just kind of fits everywhere.

Jennifer McIver

Well, it seems that ketchup, or some form of ketchup, seems to be the winner. Even ketchup with ranch or spicy ketchup. I'm not sure which condiment I think is the best description, or which one does the trick, although I have to say that, I know I can't say mine. But before I even try saying mine again, Diana, I'm curious, do you have a favorite comparison, or do you have your own?

Diana Flanders

Yeah, I'll throw another one into the mix here. So how about mustard? And it's versatile. It's sharp. Good analogy to AI's ability to cut through many types of inefficiency and complexity.

Jennifer McIver

I think that's funny. I think it's also very interesting, because mustard, to me, seems like it's one of those love or hate type of condiments and so, and I think that's true about AI, there's so many people that still, whether it's not wanting to use AI, or whether it's just the fact that their life has been turned upside down from having to work with AI. And when I say that, I mean in legal, having to worry about security, privacy, those kind of things, I think folks might be a little turned off, like they are to mustard. I like mustard, by the way. Mine, I still can't say it, so we'll say every single form of it. But I like Worce- I can't even say it now that I'm trying, but it's the sauce from UK, and to those that can say it really well, I'm glad. I just never learned it. My dad said it wrong, and I can't, but I still think it's that, because I find that sauce to be a little secretive. I feel like I know what's behind the scenes, but nobody wants to admit that anchovies are behind the scenes in that sauce. And so, I think that that's kind of like AI, everybody knows about it. Everybody kind of likes it. It goes in everything. But you never really want to talk about the ingredients. You just kind of want to use it and move on.

Diana Flanders

Yeah, I will say, we did try to demystify some of the AI, not with getting into the technical weeds, but definitely just that Wolters Kluwer takes a very thoughtful approach to AI, and our trust principles and just our overall responsible AI. So maybe the secret sauce, we try to give them a little bit of a little insight into the recipe, if you will.

Jennifer McIver

So maybe our slogan for next year should be Wolters Kluwer, AI, no anchovies needed or no hidden anchovies. No hidden anchovies. Yeah, there you go. I like that. In all seriousness, though, I am grateful to have the opportunity to spend time with our clients during Amplify to talk about topics like rate increases, AI, and even the future of legal ops and how it might change in the impact of AI. Diana, thank you so very much for joining me today. I appreciate your willingness to play along, especially with the condiments.

Diana Flanders

Thanks, Jen, yeah, really looking forward to Amplify 2026 in Scottsdale.

Jennifer McIver

I love that. Cheers to the rest of the year, and I agree. Let's look forward to Amplify 2026 in Scottsdale, Arizona. It's going to be great time.

Greg Corombos

Thank you, Jen and Diana, for your perspectives from Amplify 2025 and for sharing those delightful client voices with us. From rate negotiations to AI powered invoice review, from building stronger law firm partnerships to redefining the role of legal operations professionals. It's clear that 2026 is poised to be a transformative year for corporate legal departments. And whether you think AI is ketchup, hot sauce or even horseradish, one thing is certain, it's becoming an essential ingredient in the legal operations recipe. If you found value in today's episode, please subscribe to the Legal Leaders Exchange podcast and share it with your colleagues in legal operations. Join us again in our next episodes for more conversations with leaders who are shaping the future of the legal operations industry.